Opposites attract: Osher Gunsberg and Jan Fran on life, death and swearing in Czech

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Opposites attract: Osher Gunsberg and Jan Fran on life, death and swearing in Czech

By Louise Rugendyke

It used to be that the only things we couldn't talk about were sex, politics and religion, but now they are pretty much our favourite topics. So what else should we be talking about? Ahead of the Yack Festival, we invited Jan Fran, host of The Feed on SBS, and Osher Gunsberg, who is best known for hosting The Bachelor, to sit down and have a chinwag about the big and small stuff.

Osher Gunsberg and Jan Fran.

Osher Gunsberg and Jan Fran. Credit: James Brickwood

Osher Gunsberg: Hi, Jan Fran.

Jan Fran: Hi Osh. Nice to see ya. I hear your name means something a bit rude.

OG: It does. It's not just a bit rude, either. It's very rude.

JF: Can I tell you, when I saw you do that bit in your show, and you said Snezana [Markoski from The Bachelor], who was Macedonian, and she said your name, Osh, was a nickname for …

OG: It rhymes with "hunt" …

JF: Runt? I'm running out of options …

OG: Front?

JF: She was saying it and I thought, "Oh my god, that's so true", because I speak Arabic, and in Arabic, it's abbreviated to that as well.

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OG: Oh really?

JF: So your name means something that rhymes with "hunt" in Arabic.

OG: In Australia we are so limited in our swearing, our curses are "F--- you, you dickhead". But the Arabic swears are these long florid things. What's your favourite Arabic swear?

JF: Ohhhh …

OG: Let me kick you off. My grandmother used to swear in Czech at me, "Sakramentski cluk stais blazni", which means, "Damn you boy, you're making me crazy!" But it sounds like the heavens would shake. It's so much better than "You idiot". We're so limited in English.

JF: Yeah, that's true.

OG: What's something you're mum or dad or your grandma or grandpa says to you?

JF: My mum says to us all the time, "El dum ysle'ik": "May you boil in blood".

OG: Whoa. That's old-school stuff.

Jan Fran: "Be worried about someone who has never changed their mind."

Jan Fran: "Be worried about someone who has never changed their mind." Credit: James Brickwood

JF: Here's a question for you, if you could have a billboard, with anything written on it, what would it be and where would you put it?

OG: I would put it where there's a high amount of traffic. In Sydney, I'd put it where the M5 and the M7 converge.

JF: That's a place where literally nobody moves for 45 minutes during peak hour. What would it say?

OG: I don't want to frighten people too much …

JF: Doooo it…

OG: I'd probably say something along the lines of, "Your conveniences of modern life have been brought to you all by science. Trust in the science. You can't ignore some of the science. You've gotta be OK with all of the science."

JF: Why were you so hesitant to say it?

OG: Because I don't want to frighten people. As far as they're concerned, I'm just the guy who counts the roses. They don't know I think about this heavy stuff all the time.

JF: I reckon they've got an idea. You've been outed.

OG: What would yours be?

JF: "Life's long." I was going to say I'd have it in place of the Coca-Cola sign in Kings Cross, but Kings Cross is dead. It's not going to get any eyeballs.

OG: And who's going to see that? Privileged eastern suburbs people.

JF: That's what mine would be, because I really believe life is long. And for me, that's a really taboo thing to say. Everybody is so into "life is short", so when you say "life is long" it feels like you're coming at it from this negative perspective. But it gives me such enormous perspective on where am I am. Because whatever happens in this moment doesn't really matter. It's one part of this enormous puzzle.

OG: It's something we don't really talk about that much – how long life is, or how long life will be. My nephew, who is six months old, there's every chance he will live into the 22nd century. What world will we leave for him? That's mind-blowing, right?

JF: You can't picture it, can you? I cannot even fathom what that world will look like.

OG: Neither can I. But there's also a chance, I'll get close, and I'm 44. I've probably got another 50 years up my sleeve, but how many of those years, and this is what people don't like to talk about, will I be alive but not able to do stuff? As far as I'm concerned this is how I want it to go, Jan: I want to go fit, fit, fit, fit, fit, dead. That's it.

JF: I'm kind of hoping by the time I'm old, or my kids are really, really old, there's a "check out of life" button you can push. You're like, "Yeah, I'm kinda done. I feel like I've contributed, I've had a good time, I'm kinda done." Is that bad?

OG: I am 100 per cent in for that. Anyone that's seen a loved one lose a battle with a terminal illness in this country, where we don't allow voluntary euthanasia, will know that having some Nembutol at arm's reach, it's the kindest, most wonderful thing they could possibly do. And I certainly hope the laws change when my time comes, if I get stage four cancer …

Osher Gunsberg: "I don't want to frighten people."

Osher Gunsberg: "I don't want to frighten people."Credit: James Brickwood

JF: I'm going to knock on wood right now.

OG: Are you? You can knock on all the wood you like.

JF: That's not science! That's the opposite of your billboard.

OG: Have you ever done a bedside vigil?

JF: No. But you know what we could stand more to talk about? Death. Because it is the one thing that connects every single human being. People have so many experiences that I will not have, but the one experience you and I will have, and everyone will have, is that we will die.

OG: Wayne Coyne from the Flaming Lips was right. He said everyone will some day die. He's absolutely right. Death is there for every single one of us and you can have all the boats and cars and money and bitcoin you want, but you can't take any of that with you. So what are you left with? You're left with how you make people feel.

JF: There's this quote – I might have that on the billboard as well – by Maya Angelou, and I probably saw it on Instagram, let's be honest, where she said people don't remember what you say or do, people only remember how you make them feel. And that is 100 per cent true. That has very slowly seeped into my consciousness, so that every time I interact with someone or meet someone, I want them to feel, good. Either they feel a bit light or they feel like they've learnt something or they feel entertained.

OG: It's called having a positive neural connection. So every time I think of you, I have a positive neural connection and my heart goes, "Oh, the world isn't as shit as I think it is, Jan's in it."

JF: Do you really think people see you as the guy with the roses on The Bachelor?

OG: Yeah. Only because so many people say, "Oh, I never knew you did that [podcast]".

JF: What do you want people to see you as?

OG: I don't know. I get a kick out of surprising people, being a Trojan horse.

JF: That doesn't end well, from what I've heard. Well, maybe for the people in the horse.

OG: I can open the door with the familiarity I've been in your living room for the last 20 years, and then I've got you for about one more sentence. Because people project all kinds of ideas on to you, even though they don't know you. If someone were to look at the way you're dressed right now – which is a bright pink dress with an ibis standing upon a wheelie bin – people might make up their mind what kind of woman you are. But do they have any idea you are an extraordinary journalist? You surprise people. You're using this facade so people go, "Oh, she looks fun, what's going on there? Hang on, now I'm being confronted … argh!" I dig that.

JF: Well, I've always just gone to the deep shit. I don't need you to suck me in with the palatability, because I'm not here for the palatability. Do you think anything is off-limits in conversations? Is there anything you think is too taboo to talk about?

OG: No. I know you said life is long, but I don't think we have enough time as humans, to not have these conversations.

Osher Gunsberg and Jan Fran: "This is a chirpy conversation we're having!"

Osher Gunsberg and Jan Fran: "This is a chirpy conversation we're having!" Credit: James Brickwood

JF: I you could ask one politician one thing, what would it be and who would it be? It's parliamentary privilege, so no one can haul you in front of any tribunal or find you.

OG: Xi Jinping, the president of China. I'd say, "Mate, go 100 per cent nuclear, 100 per cent green." Once you have your economy run on free, or nearly free energy, everyone else who wants to compete will have no choice but to switch. And we'll talk about your human rights record later. What would you say?

JF: I would say to Scott Morrison, get everyone off Nauru now. Get the children off Nauru, get the adults off Nauru. Close that centre.

OG: This is a chirpy conversation we're having!

JF: People want people to talk about smart stuff in a funny way. I think there is this appetite now in the world to get all this information, to dissect that information in a way that is smart and not superficial. This is what I said about small talk, I don't do small talk. Tell me what you got.

OG: What's another thing that makes people uncomfortable?

JF: Infidelity, monogamy, paedophilia – they all make people uncomfortable. But I think it's OK when you're uncomfortable. So if we can upscale that as a society and realise being uncomfortable is good, that's where the change is going to come from.

OG: Third billboard – it's OK to change your mind. It's all right.

JF: In fact, if you don't change your mind, that's the worry. Be very worried about someone who has never changed their mind.

OG: It's OK to change your mind, it's all right. Cool beans.

Jan Fran and Osher Gunsberg are appearing at the Yack Festival, Giant Dwarf, Redfern, October 19 to November 4.

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